Do We See the Equinox Crew Again on Voyager

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1. 

   Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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   Prax

   Was Moriarty sentient?

   Or I approximate that'southward the large misnomer in trek. Was he sapient?

   Or are these both misnomers when talking near a computer intelligence. The Doctor can sense, feel, utilise logic, and reason; but did he come to take an electric soul and desires of his own that he was never programmed to have?

2. Wikipedia says that Sentient is the wrong word, BUT "science fiction" gets an exemption, so Science Fiction tin can say sentient instead of sapient because no one wants to contend with that many nerds decades afterward the fact.

   (Data. TNG used the incorrect word every other calendar week, and it got ingrained.)

3. 

   Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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   Prax

   So did the Dr. come to ain an bogus soul?

   I don't call back even Data did. He was very like in many means to a homo. He had a brain of sorts that could grow and form new functions. He didn't have to remember B'elanna to add together a singing app, or a dating app, or dancing, etc to his mainframe. They were ever bring upward this or that comparison of how his functions exactly parallel biological ones, but ultimately he spent his whole life just mimicking what humans practice.

4. The Dr. in all his learning didn't seem to cover spirituality. I mean he played the part of a priest in Fair Haven merely it was very theatrical for him. The Doc identified his 'species' as hologram. He wasn't human sentient, but he was hologram sentient. His conventionalities system revolved effectually a data base of operations and exploring human patterns of ethical and emotional growth. Irrespective that information technology was originally part of his programming to accept the ability to extend himself, the Medico's ego was that of 'The Doctor'. It developed from unique.. experiences.

   Janeway didn't have other long term hologram crew members to prove that she actually favoured the Doctor. And so how do we really know she favoured him over others of his kind? I remember she favoured the solitary Borg crew member merely as much. Anyway what was she supposed to do? Take him offline and deny him the privilege of being the Doctor? She didn't want to reduce him back to his original holographic state because he was more useful (mistakes and all) 'upgraded'. Janeway didn't e'er respect the Physician in the same manner as some other homo. Harry didn't. B'Ellana didn't.

5. I would rather err on the side of caution and assume The Doctor/Data/Moriarty/Vic might have some caste of sentience and consequently deserve protection than assume they're lightbulbs.

6. Wow, I hope y'all don't have any kids, …or at least hopefully never apply this possible Janeway/writer reasoning to childrearing. "Since the circumstances that led to him/her being born (ie condign sentient or sapient) are your and your partner's error (or your doing at to the lowest degree) and so to punish him or her for his or her deportment as a sentient/sapient being are fundamentally unfair. Therefore, we'll only let him or her be a spoiled brat and do whatsoever he or she wants to do and very possibly become a menace to society." At to the lowest degree a child doesn't have the hologram super powers!

   @Refuge - The favoritism nosotros're referring to is how Janeway had royally chewed out or punished, disciplined, demoted, relieved from duty, restricted, etc every human fellow member of the senior staff at some fourth dimension or other over the years, but never punished, restricted, or chewed out the doctor. On the folio previous, Sophia gives a nice listing comparison.The point is that Janeway doesn't treat the doctor every bit some other member of the coiffure. He gets special handling.
   What could she do? How virtually chew him out? How nigh remove his access to the command codes, since he tin can't be trusted with them? How about not waiting a calendar week later (in Renaissance Man) and she be the one to restrict him to Sickbay, and for 30 days, like Tom Paris. Just off the top of my head.

7. What well-nigh the Fairhaven characters?

   Nosotros should care for those 800 programs equally people with consummate human rights?

   Oh...

   When your child in real life, starts treating their teddy conduct as a person, do yous start treating that teddy as a person too, or are you going to be charged with attempted murder for sticking teddy in the washing machine?

8. Janeway and others, particularly in the early episodes didn't requite the Doctor favourable treatment compared to flesh and blood crew. He was a program confined to the Medical Bay. He was often left 'on' and complained no ane cared plenty to shut him down. What nearly when he was shrinking? It was like nosotros'll get to you when nosotros can. Because he was a hologram he was treated less than human until he became humanised. Still he was e'er going to exist merely a hologram by 'nature', then Janeway'due south (later) special treatment was not going to exist tailored to how she would subject field a Federation crew fellow member, or an ex-Marquis, or a Borg. Janeway treated Neelix and Kes differently besides. The command structure of Voyager took in those who were not strictly function of it. I would suggest the Physician was simply non as a recognised Officer with pips on his collar but as an Officer in title only and equally an emergency program.

   When Seven threw Species 8472 under the jitney in Prey she was disciplined.. barely. Janeway very next episode had to acknowledge that traditional forms of discipline couldn't be applied to 7 resulting in Seven and the Doctor (Hindsight) causing the death of another, Kovin. Borgs make mistakes, holograms do too. Notwithstanding I go that Janeway couldn't apply the same methods of discipline to either of these unique members of her coiffure. The Doctor volunteered to have his program returned to its original state in Hindsight. Janeway decided that wasn't appropriate. She was right. Just for the sake of following a protocol the loss of the Doctor's improved usefulness would have been a long term detriment. Same goes for his Command abilities. Why have abroad an emergency fail condom? As information technology so happened he could be trusted with (Emergency) Command.

   Janeway treated the Doctor differently thoughout but he was different. At times I retrieve she was very pragmatic. She DID intendance for the valiant hologram she befriend, but she knew how to manage her resources, human and otherwise.

9. 

   Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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   Prax

   They shouldn't be making these "Sentient" holograms. It'south just going to lead to disaster.

10. Nobody e'er intentionally made them.

11. 

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Prax

    Well, they get to great lengths to brand them like real people. Or Zimmerman does.

    Moriarty was an accident due to carelessness. When you say "Computer, make an antagonist that is capable of defeating data."

    That sounds dangerous. Geordi tells the dr. "The computer volition do whatsoever is necessary the carry out the directive-create an adversary capable of defeating data."

    And he'due south excited virtually this. I guess he hasn't yet seen how easily Data tin can take over the ship.

12. The Doctor's problem in the early episodes is that he was created overly sensitive. As a doctor, he should have understood "triage", choosing priorities. Coiffure members were pretty busy early on putting out crises much of the time and his problems were low on the scale of emergencies. As an Emergency Medical Hologram he should take understood that. And yes, early on he wanted to be turned off. So later he was annoyed when he WAS turned off. Zimmerman programmed the Mark I to exist self-centered and irritable, like himself, which was dumb on his part but agreeable for the prove. Withal, the EMH was always intended to be a tool to supplement a starship's medical staff in times of emergency. Nothing more than. Exercise I offend my laptop when I leave it running or close it down--? Should I intendance?

    Capt Janeway did chew out Neelix royally when his friend talked him into stealing medicine from Sickbay to sell to get a map in "Fair Trade". He was threatened with beingness asked to leave if he did something similar that once again, equally I call up. And Vii was not "barely" disciplined. Are we watching the same show? 7'south access to the ship and its systems was severely restricted after "Casualty", and in a following episode Chakotay told her she would have to earn back the captain's trust. Janeway had to talk and work with Seven quite a bit over fourth dimension before she came around; some of that was by appealing to their shared humanity, sometimes it was by asserting authority over her. Both was needed.
    Kes was never disciplined because she never disobeyed orders or betrayed the send, equally I recall. Not until that later goofy episode "Fury", when she had become mentally ill or something, and and so she went back to Ocampa anyway.

    Actually, at the end of "Retrospect", the Md did delete the information he'd added about psychology, since fifty-fifty he realized he did non have the wisdom to apply information technology accordingly or to apply the proper circumspection. He had gotten someone unjustly killed! At the very least, Janeway should have fabricated it physically impossible for him to add to or change his programming without the captain's authorization, since then many times his tinkering went amiss.

    And no, the Dr. demonstrated he could Not be trusted independently with Voyager's control codes. "Renaissance Homo" was the next to the concluding episode. The Doctor disobeyed the helm'south direct guild; he attacked several senior officers and impersonated them likewise equally the captain, so used the control codes to squirt the warp core. If the crew had not found where it had gone in fourth dimension, Voyager'due south crew could have been stranded in that role of the Delta Quadrant for the rest of their lives. I'm non saying the Md can't be useful or should never be allowed to human activity as ECH, simply simply under homo authorisation.

    For someone such every bit myself who grew up watching Capt Kirk liberate numerous societies that had go enslaved by powerful, computerized Artificial Intelligences, or androids, the doctor's journey and demand for "rights" is not a stand in for real life oppressed peoples, only is frustrating and alarming. In the showtime of "Renaissance Man", the Doctor declares that he is no longer aspiring to exist human because he has realized that he is superior to humans. And and then to see what he gain to do to his shipmates is not cute or clever. It is creepy. Computer programs and holograms are made for man, not homo for figurer programs and holograms. They need to be properly restricted to their defined task or turned off/deleted; and yes, in this case they need the doctor's medical skills, so he needs to be strictly managed.

    I agree with Prax. Plus, I have never much liked or fully "suspended disbelief" of the holodeck/hologram tech. And I question the toll effectiveness or practicality of using the other obsolete Marking I EMHs in mines (but that'due south another topic). It is big-headed hubris that leads people to create human-like replicas, and then sentimental fantasy to believe in that location is no difference, or lastly, to retrieve that considering it is different that y'all let information technology run amuck. Perhaps the side by side Star Trek incarnation should exist "The Rise of Landru".

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